Monday, December 27, 2010

Hunting the hunters

The following is an editorial that appeared in The Times Herald. Obviously I sign off on all editorials.
Please take a moment to read the editorial and then leave a comment. Thanks.


No one knows what happened in the woods in Bucks County a few weeks ago except for the people involved.
Tragically, Barry Groh probably didn’t know what happened that fateful day either.
Groh, 52, was dragging a deer he had shot when he was shot and killed by another hunter. David Manilla has been charged with manslaughter in the case.
While we don’t know exactly what happened that day, we do know David Manilla should never have been in the woods with a high-powered rifle in the first place.
Manilla, a convicted felon, is not permitted to own a weapon. Manilla’s felony conviction came after he beat a man with a curl bar outside a gym in Norristown in the mid-’80s.
While again, we don’t know what happened that day, we do know that Manilla’s uncle, former Montgomery County District Attorney and former County Commissioner Mike Marino, should never have been in the woods with Manilla, knowing he was a convicted felon.
Manilla is an attorney with a reputation for handling DUI cases.
Marino is an attorney with a reputation for being a hard-nosed prosecutor and an even more hard-nosed executive as a county commissioner.
Both men absolutely should have known that Manilla should not have been in those woods.
And Manilla also was using a high-powered rifle, which is illegal for hunting in Pennsylvania.
Marino, a self-proclaimed outdoorsman, should have known the high-powered rifle was illegal for hunting.
We’re confident the Bucks County District Attorney will handle this case with expediency and a firm hand.
While we don’t know exactly what happened on that fateful day, we do know that the circumstances surrounding the death of a 52-year-old father of two should be examined from every angle, and every responsible party should be held to the highest letter of the law.

32 comments:

An eye for an eye said...

Mr. Stan;

First: Thank God that the D.A. is located in Bucks County.

Second: Minilla should be sent to Graterford for at least 40 years.

Third: His great uncle Marino should get the same 40.

Fourth: If Castor represents Marino I will pray that he get his raer end beat in the next election.(Bird of a feather).

Fifth: Our prayers are with the Groh family for the loss of their husband and father.

Mr. Stan, there has to be justice in this case, not a slap on the hand as in the past.

Lisa Mossie said...

Stan: My critique was written with the intent of preserving the integrity of the paper and the important stories you cover. If you are satisfied that this editorial paragraph suffices as coverage on this story, who am I to tell you how to do your job?

That being said, I have three final comments about your column today.

1. Your reaction suggests that my remarks hit rather close to the mark. What you choose to do with reader critiques, is, of course your business. However, it should be noted that in matters of freedom of speech, sometimes what is NOT said is as important is what is said.

2. Your characterization of my comments in my post was inaccurate and unfair.

3. Please don't lump me in with other anonymous posters on the TH boards. If I have something worth saying, I never hesitate to post it under my full name.

Anonymous said...

How do you mistake a man for a deer, when using a scope and shooting from 80 yards? I am a big fan of Mr Castor and how this plays out will determine if that continues. I have heard no mention of this yet, but I hear the guns were purchased for him by his girlfriend who is also an attorney. My heart goes out for Mr Groh's family. Let them have some closure and put Mr Manilla behind bars for a long time.

Anonymous said...

Once again, I have to back Lisa, I think she's right on all three counts. And as far as rules 1-2and 3 for posting, I can't see how anything on that post was irresponsible, impolite or hateful. Yet Mr. Husky still finds "so many things wrong" with it. But, you have to remember that famous quote "Freedom of the press belongs to the man who owns one" (A J Leibling). Lisa, this freedom to be heard is pretty new, but I guess we're starting to take it for granted. But the good thing is, you don't need to be wealthy enough to own a printing press anymore. At least while we still have a degree of 'net neutrality.
Lisa, If you decide to start up a local online "newspaper" I bet it won't be hard to find help with investigative reporting!

Stan said...

Lisa,
I have always admired you for posting with your full name. And to everyone; I must not be making myself clear. I'm not talking about the comments that are on the site or on this blog. I'm talking about the comments that have been removed or not approved. Please understand the distinction.

Anonymous said...

Top Stories of 2010: Crime in Norristown

you include other years and areas, so what about this one?

Ernest R. Morris, on trial for three homicides, was convicted of murder and conspiracy in the fatal shooting of a Norristown man, a pregnant woman and her unborn child nearly five years ago.

After deliberating Tuesday and Wednesday, a Montgomery County jury found the 29-year-old man guilty of first-degree murder for the killing of Jennifer Pennington, 30, and her unborn baby, and second-degree murder for 33-year-old Shawne Mims’ death. Morris was also convicted of kidnapping, burglary and related offenses.

On Jan. 31, 2005, Mims was killed in a Best Western Hotel room in King of Prussia; Pennington, who was six months pregnant, was shot in the face in Fairmount Park. Morris, who admits driving his co-conspirators on the night of the murders, testified that he went along with the other men because he feared for his own life.

your censorship amazes people when there is supposed to be freedom of speech, and yet you are too afraid to post opposing opinions.

Anonymous said...

Well, you WEREN'T making yourself clear. I DID think you were talking about comments that were published on the site. After all, you did actually quote from them!

Stan said...

OK, here is a great example of posts that should never see the light of day: Anonymous (Dec. 28, 2010 7:57 a.m.) The crime did not occur in Norristown. Please read carefully before posting. You copied the headline Top Stories of 2010: Crime in Norristown. Here is the link, http://bit.ly/5rrwVT, for the story anonymous is referring to. It was a Top Story...last year. And then you go on to say: "your censorship amazes people when there is supposed to be freedom of speech, and yet you are too afraid to post opposing opinions."
Where is the censorship and where is the opposing opinion. For those of you (Mossie) who actually have something constructive to say, even though I don't always agree with you, please know you will always have a voice here. For those of you who post inane comments like the one I am referring to here will soon be blocked.

Anonymous said...

Hunting Permits... How did this one fall through the cracks? In most counties only a few permits are issued, depending on what season it will be used in and the type of fire arms are noted. The clerk should have made sure Manilla was a legal hunter. Some where along the line, we have dropped the ball and a young man, father and husband is dead. As for Marino - that is one great mistake he made - justice will be served in the county of Bucks no matter which attorney is representing Manilla or Marino and any other person in the hunting party.

Anonymous said...

where's the vick haters? they should go after this hunter, too. CHESTER, Pa. - A Delaware County man is facing animal cruelty charges following a night of drinking that ended with his expressed desire to feast on a pair of kittens.

Francis McGinley, 44, allegedly arrived at his apartment drunk, with a pair of bloody kittens in hand, according to Delaware County SPCA spokeswoman Justina Calgiano:

"He was telling his roommate that he wanted to eat two kittens for dinner after he claimed he had run them over with his truck."

It turns out he didn't do either, although both kittens were injured - one initially breathing so shallowly that it was pronounced dead by a vet only to be discovered alive a short time later.

Both animals, now named Karma and Nirvana, are doing relatively well. McGinley is now free after posting bail, charged with animal cruelty, public drunkenness, and reckless endangerment. A preliminary hearing is tentatively set for next week.

Anonymous said...

hey dodo, you missed one in 2010. in your own paper, too. ROFLMAO!

COURTHOUSE — A man suspected of fatally shooting Marcus Bates outside the Elmwood Elks Lodge in Norristown Sunday has fled the United States, according to the Montgomery County District Attorney’s Office.

Garfield Williams, 39, who is believed to be the man who shot and killed Bates, flew to Jamaica Sunday. Authorities have arrested his wife, Alexis Morris-Williams, who after her husband got into a "tussle" with Bates, allegedly left the lodge and returned with a gun in her purse that she gave to Williams, police said.

Around 2:43 a.m., Mr. Williams allegedly shot Bates in the back with the same gun outside the lodge.

Anonymous said...

Stan you do censor regular comments that oppose yours. I've posted some that never appear, yet others who worship you can post things like hold up your jock and other nonsense like that.

Anonymous said...

Marino seems to allegedly aided and abetted his nephew by not being forthcoming about the killing. He needs to be charged, if proven guilty, with obstruction and go to jail.

Stan said...

Here is yet another post (Anonymous, Dec. 29, 201 10:15 a.m.) I have allowed, even though I shouldn't have. I did so to prove my point about not allowing certain comments. Let me reiterate to all, that I am not talking about any of the comments you see on my blog or on our website. At least not most of them. I am talking about the one I referenced above, though, because it simply is not true. I'm glad this person is rolling on the floor laughing because laughter is good for the soul, but I'm not sure why. Here is the story, http://bit.ly/eA8bqS, that this Anonymous said we didn't have. It took about two seconds to find it. So please get up off the floor and stop posting untrue comments.

Anonymous said...

12/29/10 10:16 A.M. Check the sports page and leave Stan's Jock out of it. A jock is refered to a sports player who likes to protect himself. Believe it or not, women professional football players are also wearing them. To each their own.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

12/29/10 10:16 A.M. Check the sports page and leave Stan's Jock out of it. A jock is refered to a sports player who likes to protect himself. Believe it or not, women professional football players are also wearing them. To each their own.

December 29, 2010 1:17 PM

===========================

Maybe you should read all the comments before commenting yourself. I referred to this comment. Now, explain it to me. I know about jock straps, so what's the connotation???


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Anonymous Up Town Sam said...

Goes to show you man,keep your mouth shut unless you know where you are and who your talking too. It's the job of reporters to report what they hear and where they hear it. You have a right to challenge just as much as the paper has to write. Thank you Times Herald, keep us informed,the public has the right to know. Stan,tighen your jock and don't let these people who know nothing get to you. Your readers deserve and want the truth.

December 14, 2010 6:59 AM

Kdyson said...

Stan- one item of note, high powered rifles are not illegal in all areas of PA as your article states. Counties around Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are shotgun only, but the majority of the state allows high powered rifles. The county where this occurred is definitely shotgun only and obviously the accused had absolutely no reason to have a rifle illegally.

The sybil said...

It should not be too much to expect that people who post on these blogs will stick to the topic and the reader should not feel like they just turned over a rock in the garden.

Anonymous said...

Stan:
I find it most interesting that an attorney of Mr. Marino's repute would even be involved in a hunting party with a person who was prohibited to own or have access to firearm plus using an illegal one at that. What type of firearm was Mr. Marino carrying...a rifle also? Why isn't the Bucks County Bar, or Pa Game comission investigating? This man should be taking a long vacation along with his Nephew courtesy of the Commonwealth.
Lower Providece Jaeger

Anonymous said...

This man has a huge rap sheet that goes years back....for the same crimes with a gun in the woods.

From Pa court dockets

18 § 6105 §§A1 Possession Of Firearm Prohibited 11/29/2010 L6026683
2 2 18 § 6105 §§A1 Possession Of Firearm Prohibited 11/29/2010 L6026683
3 3 18 § 6105 §§A1 Possession Of Firearm Prohibited 11/29/2010 L6026683
4 4 18 § 2504 §§A Involuntary Manslaughter 11/29/2010 L6026683
5 5 M2 18 § 2705 Recklessly Endangering Another Person 11/29/2010 L6026683
6 6 34 § 2522 §§A Shoot At Kill Inj Human Hunting 11/29/2010 L6026683
7 7 34 § 2523 §§A Fail Render Assis After Hunt Accid 11/29/2010 L6026683
8 Traps Firearms Ammun And Other Devices
8 34 § 2102 §§D 11/29/2010 L6026683
9 9 34 § 2307 §§A Taking/Poss Of Game Or Wildlife 11/29/2010 L6026683
10 10 34 § 2307 §§A Taking/Poss Of Game Or Wildlife 11/29/2010 L6026683
11 11 34 § 2503 §§A Unlaw Pres Loaded Firearm Veh 11/29/2010 L6026683
12 12 S4 34 § 2308 §§A8 Use Of Artificial/Natural Bait 11/29/2010 L6026683


34 § 2522 §§A Shoot At Kill Inj Human Hunting 12/23/1993 1098
18 § 2501 §§A Criminal Attempt - Criminal Homicide 02/22/1985 B4057992

Anonymous said...

Asked if Giffords had any enemies, her father replied, “the whole tea party.” Giffords had been under attack by vicious emails, threats and attempts at physical harm in the past year. Even her opponent in the last Congressional race used pictures of himself with an automatic weapon. In August of 2009, an attendee at a Giffords town-hall meeting dropped a handgun.

Since Giffords voted in favor of health-care overhaul in March, she has been subject to ridicule and vandalism. Her office was broken into and the glass pain of her door was shattered. Giffords stated, “The rhetoric is incredibly heated, not just the calls but the emails, the slurs. Things have really gotten spun up.”

In March of 2009, Sarah PalinSarah Palin’s political action committee posted a map of the US citing locations of the 20 Democratic members of Congress (including Giffords) that were targeted for defeat. Each marker on the map was in the image of a gun crosshairs. Today, Giffords was removed from a map and a statement of sorrow over the shooting was issued by Palin. Giffords was outspoken about the image and the intended 20 Dems that were targeted, “When people do that they’ve gotta realize there’s consequences to that action.”

Anonymous said...

Stan, thanks to the previous writer for quoting his blog from all local papers. How many years has it been since Lee Harvey Oswald did his dastardly deed? This is not the time to point the finger...It's the time to pray for the victims and Gabby.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stan, thanks to the previous writer for quoting his blog from all local papers. How many years has it been since Lee Harvey Oswald did his dastardly deed? This is not the time to point the finger...It's the time to pray for the victims and Gabby.

January 10, 2011 2:50 PM
-----------------
It is time to point the fingers at the "don't retreat, reload" and palin's admitting that it was bullseyes, but she missed two, one being Ms. Gifford. There are responsibilities to your actions, and palin's tweets and talks have caught up with her. Don't assume that I am not in mourning. I cried about all the victims, especially that innocent 9 year old, just elected in her class, who was interested in politics. Ironic, isn't it, that palin tagged along with the tea party who, if they looked at history, the original ones disguised themselves as Natives to hide their true identity to protest tea taxes. Now the tea party has fringe elements that espouse racist and bigoted ideas, but the tea party only disowns them when exposed. There was a republican woman, 70 something who liked Ms Giffords and went to meet her only to be murdered.

Finally, Ms. Giffords sent an email to a republican of congratulations and asking to meet to stop the rhetoric and to find a common meeting ground. A very nice person who was out there meeting with everyone.

Who also mentioned sarah's map and that sarah would have to deal with the consequences. Well, sarah went crying to glenn. But I hope people aren't fooled this time by her.

My deepest sympathies to all who died and my hope and prayers to the recovery of those who are fighting to live.

Anonymous said...

Sarah,Sarah,Sarah, will not have a snowballs chance in hell if she decides to run in the next election. It's nice for Stan to allow all blogs to be posted no matter what the authors view points are. Put your finger back in your pocket until we see how the MEDIA plays this one out. The shooter was a disturbed indivisual, with no one helping him out. Blame society if you want to blame someone. It's about time we forget the R & D and strive for a better country to live in. If we do not strive to work togeather we need not worry about the terrorist trying to get us all.

Anonymous said...

Why would any person here in Montgomery and Bucks County blame "Sarah?" The problem is some people, although they are Lawyers or whatever profession you choose, believe any law does not apply to them? Any person that runs for office both Federal and Local are always being quoted even if the occasion has no connection with that person, but only to keep a certain person's name up front. Sorry, I do not understand the Blogger that uses this woman's name to try and get a point across.

Anonymous said...

How did Manilla keep his license to practice law? If we here in "Common Land" did what he has done, they would have thrown the key away.

Anonymous said...

Shop Lifting is the first part of this side show. I'll be dead and gone by the time this case really comes to court.

Anonymous said...

Do you call this a fast or speedy trial?

Anonymous said...

Judgment Day is here for Minilla. One Judgment Day at a time for all people that act in an unlawful manner. I do not believe he will need to worry about his clothing for a very long time. I like stripes, but not the type that are on unfitted uniforms in a horizontal manner. The Groh Family has had my prayers, now peace will take over but forgiveness I'm seeing a very long time.

Anonymous said...

Did you say 25 Years??? All in striped suits ... What a come down!
This does not excuse the slaughter of a fellow hunter. Now, how about those that were hunting with him? Stripes too?

Anonymous said...

No rest for the wild life - PA feels hunters should be permitted to hunt on Sunday too... Well, maybe a vote should be taken that would only include farmers. The state property has many hunting cabins that are used for hunting and of course fishing and all types of sports ... but hunting on a Sunday, it is not a good idea. Let the hikers,bikers and families living near the forest land enjoy one day of peace.

Anonymous said...

If everything goes as usual in PA, NJ & NY, the facilities will be updated by the time our hunter friend and any person accused of similar offenses will have completed their term. Air Conditioning? I hope not. A need for a quiet place with other prisoners of similar offenses can reflect on what happened and then what happens when their time is up - How to make a living???